How Much Can an Internet Marketer Make With Affiliate Programs?
Read revelations of a highly successful affiliate entrepreneur making over $500k a year.
Be acquainted, Mook-Jon an Internet entrepreneur with a 10-year experience.
Mook-Jon's CJ Stats
| Mook-Jon: I had posted this in a different thread to prove a point. A friend told me I should repost it to show people what can be accomplished with the right amount of work and research in specific markets to make what I do. I usually never brag, but I'm willing to post this and take any real questions you may have about how to increase your conversions. Yes, these stats are real and the screen shot was taken earlier this week. I will not post anymore for a long long time, so soak it up, and fire away. |
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Originally Posted by Wide
Very nice. How much time is those earnings for? |
Mook-Jon: Some of December 2005 and mostly Jan 2006.
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Originally Posted by Fahd
I could be wrong but I think Jon is mostly is a mailing list kind of guy!  |
Mook-Jon: Actually, believe it or not, I have zero newsletters and do zero emailing. I've been putting off on buying some software to run them, so if you can recommend any, that would be lovely.
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Originally Posted by CLKeenan
Right, what is your net profit? How much time and money do you spend maintaining your sites? What would happen if you werent able to work on your sites for 2 weeks? Would they be able to run themselves?
-Chris |
Mook-Jon: It's an interesting question.. I don't factor in cost  rofit like most people do. I look at it like this. If I'm making $150k a month on something, then $10k-$15k of that will cover all of my annual costs for everything. So I'll subtract the projection costs from the Jan profits, and all of the other 11 months are pure profits. Does that make sense?
I can leave most of my sites alone for months and they would still make money for me on autopilot. I usually try to take the summer months off and do fun stuff instead of work.
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Originally Posted by peach
Mook, be a sport and post some url's, most webmasters here aren't shy about their sites so don't be weird or are ALL of your site doorway page spam sites? wich would perhaps be a reason not to post. |
Mook-Jon: Sorry if I sound weird, but I don't post my URL's. That's like asking for my pin code for my bank account. Very personal and private. By the way, 99% of my sites are whitehat SEO that I don't feel like being copied by anyone. If you ask me for direct help on YOUR sites, I can probably give you some good advice.
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Originally Posted by kgtrip
Now I would be interesting to know how much traffic you need in order to get these kinds of figures. Of course if you are willing to disclose it  |
Mook-Jon: I guess it depends on what your promoting really. Sometimes you need serious volume because the offers don't pay out or convert very well, and other times you need less because it's very targeted. The question is far too general/broad.
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Originally Posted by helioaug
Other point is how much he spent to get this amount of money. |
Mook-Jon: Under $5k a month. But I'll be beefing that up with the launch of some newer projects.
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Originally Posted by wide
How many visitors do you get per month and how many of those is unique? |
Mook-Jon: For all of the sites and networks combined?
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Originally Posted by wide
Yes,
how much did you receive to earn those $80k? |
Mook-Jon: Well, CJ is just one of the many networks I use. But the entire network generally averages XX Million uniques a month.
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Originally Posted by wide
Ahh, thats alot |
Mook-Jon: Yeah but some sites may get the same person going to it, but they all register it as 1 unique.. Plus return users.. One day when I'm not so lazy I'll get some real stats on everything.
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Originally Posted by Fahd
Yes, very impressive indeed. I thought you pulled those figures through mailers because I know a few people who make similar figures through mailers, but through websites, thats very impressive!
Now here's my dirty little plan: Sell Jon one of my sites really cheap and see what he does with it. |
Mook-Jon: You should! I'll take it from zero to hero in no time and sell it back to you at 50x the original price
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Originally Posted by Ulchie
Basically... well damnit... you said something along the lines, "if you send me your site I could probably give some good advice". Well, why don't you just start a blog and give good advice of 'what not to do' and 'what to do' based on other poeple's websites you come accross or just good ideas of what to do with your site. You would never have to reveal your biggest secrets or your sites urls. But this would at least help some people who want to take the time and listen to what your willing to say. |
Mook-Jon: Hmm... I think you're onto something there. Trouble is, I'm fairly pressed for time, and the ones I'm friends with here know that content is definitely a big weakness for me. I get bored and lazy and just jump ship to a new project. I'm a marketing and advertising kinda guy, not a content one.
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Originally Posted by carlo2343
So $80,000 in about 2 months. Figure you make $500k a year.
Living the good life right now?  |
Mook-Jon: It's good, but I don't flaunt it. I still dress the same, eat the same and live fairly the same. I don't buy expensive gadgets all the time or new suits. I also work 7 days a week, and I work all the time at that. But yes, from CJ alone, I pull in over $500k a year, but remember, I didn't just POOF one day wish for it, I work my **** off for it.
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Originally Posted by xoail
You must be owning a huge network... something like inet interactive. Ccan you help me earn atleast 1% of it? im horrible in mkting. |
Mook-Jon: When I speak about my network, I mean market specific groups of sites I run, aka a network. I don't own my own private affiliate/publisher network. List your site and your problem, and I'll try and come up with some constructive ideas on how you can market it better.
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| Originally Posted by dalecom Nice stats Jon, Im guessing you're in the finance-related niches yeah ? |
Mook-Jon: Yes partially.
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Originally Posted by BoldScripts Well I'll bite (I'm sure others have, but you know, in public).
I have an arcade site, one of lots I'm sure. I've only had it up for about 2 weeks now. All I use is YPN on it (previously Google). I switched to YPN because my .2% CTR gets me more money then 10x that number on Google (go figure).
I only get about 2-3k uniques per day. Most of my visitors surf through the site (5-10 pages each) trying out different games I imagine.
My site is http://www.stopbeingbored.com
My problem is that I only make $5-10 per day from the PPC ads. This doesn't even cover rent.
So, I guess the real question here would be if you owned this site, what else would you do to monitize it? Anything would be great. Thanks! |
Mook-Jon: Well first off, I like the name of the site, and if you're able to draw in 2k-3k uniques a day from a 2 week old site, then you're definitely onto something good here. I really think you need to give the site some time to mature. Wait another month or a month and a half. If your traffic continues to just grow (which it probably will) then you can approach the larger networks like TF and Casale.
Whenever people want to attract more users and more cashflow, they make the mistake of thinking too much like a website owner. Take a step back for a moment and look at it from the user's perspective. Is this a site that you would tell your friends about? If not, what would make you do so? What stands out that's different about your site from all of the others? It's tough, but you need to go through this process and truly figure out what changes need to be made so that you stick out from all the rest.
Another thing you should consider is market research. Ask your friends, your family, even random users about what they think of your site compared to the others. Do some research on your competitor's sites. What makes them so popular that you don't have? Is it really just their name? Is it their content? Does the site load quicker? Are there fewer annoying ads? What's the incentive to play there? Where do they promote? etc..
Market research is hands down one of the most important and overlooked processes by webmasters these days. Large and small alike. Why do you think the big boys are so darn popular so quickly? They do their research, and they continue to do so, nonstop. Every weekend, I dedicate hours and hours to market research on every single site I own, and all of the new ones I'll be launching, just so I can keep myself well versed with everything in case a problem arises, or changes need to be made. Also, LOG EVERYTHING YOU FIND. Do this so you don't forget it later. Sometimes the smallest finds can be your biggest assets.
Hope that helps.
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Originally Posted by njoy Question for anyone who knows anything about CJ or Mook-Jon you can answer... either way.. In simple terms, how does CJ work?
Is it just an affiliate that has products for sale under many categories and if you sell under your ref ID you make %? |
Mook-Jon: CJ is just an affiliate network, plain and simple. They don't have any products of their own. They are the middlemen between the merchant, and the publisher. They collect funds from the merchants, and pay you, the publisher. They provide both parties with stats, and a way for the merchants to outsource their affiliate programs to CJ's large network of publishers.
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Originally Posted by Joe777 Hi Jon,
Can you expand a little bit on what your market research includes? Is it just all the stuff you mentioned about what it is that attracts people to bigger sites in your niche, etc.? I'm totally new to market research, which is probably why my sites haven't been doing real well . Any suggested books or reading would be good too. |
Mook-Jon: Yes.. By market research I mean researching the market your website falls into. It's all about doing research on what drives traffic to your competitors. There are tons of different perspectives to look at them from. I don't really have any books to suggest, but others may have some. One thing I don't suggest is buying those get rich quick on the internet ebooks, because those are all a waste of time and money. Forums are a great, and free, way to find out what has worked for others, and don't be afraid to ask questions, even if you think they are silly or stupid, don't be intimidated by anything.
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Originally Posted by BoldScripts Thanks, I was surprised myself that the domain wasn't taken already. And I honestly do believe that the site just needs some more time. My largest concern was that despite the relatively high traffic, I wasn't pulling in that much revenue (compared to lesser trafficed sites I own, some 10 to 20x smaller but making 2 or 3 times as much a day).
Market research was definately a step I skipped on this one. I just thought it looked like a neat idea, and honestly, that's all it takes for me to start up a website (for $7 or less you get a domain name, no huge investment there..). What you're saying makes sense. I think that I just need to look at the site from a users perspective and figure out a better way to reach them (now that hard part, playing games to figure out what's wrong ).
Thanks for the advice, it's sincerely appreciated.
[offtopic]
Looking forward to your follow up article on the cloaking issue
[/offtopic] |
Mook-Jon: Hey no problem, that's what I'm here for. I hope you find the answers you were looking for. Just remember, you can't make a cajillion dollars overnight. It takes a lot of trial and error. Everyone fails too, so don't get all frustrated if you run into a wall with something. There's always a solution, and sometimes it's the most simple one out there.
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Originally Posted by IamAdam Did you major in marketing @ college? Would you mind telling what college did you go? Did you go to grad school? How old are you?
Sorry if its too personal, just curious. |
Mook-Jon: I majored in Business at Columbia University in NYC. Unfortunately, I only made it to my sophmore year's winter break, and never went back. At the time I owned 90 adult sites, and didn't really see the point in going back to school. Since I didn't want to become an investment banker, lawyer, or doctor, I felt that school just wasn't for me. I sold my adult company in Jan 2003, and after a six month break from the internet, I took my knowledge and experience and brought it to mainstream affiliate marketing and SEO consulting.
I'm currently in my mid 20's, and I've been doing internet marketing/advertising since the early-mid 90's. Even though I am young, I feel much older. If it weren't for the internet, I'd probably be a daytrader on Wall St. slaving over quotas month after month. Even when times weren't as great as now, I was still happy to be involved in the internet. I'm not sure if this is what I want to do for the rest of my life, but it's certainly opened a lot of doors that were closed before.
My advice to everyone is that if you're passionate about the sites you own, just keep plugging away at it and never give up. Be as creative and original as possible in both your content and advertising methods. With the internet, you truly do have the power to accomplish anything. Just keep learning and applying new methods, and you'll be fine.
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Originally Posted by TJ3 Mook-Jon, I dont know you, but after seeing that screen shot, I hate you as much, maybe a little less than the milliondollarwebpage guy
Congrats on your financial success, you are a shining example of what some hard work and good timing can achieve!
Any tips on how to leverage your techniques on a financial website? |
Mook-Jon: Well, I didn't get to this level in four months like he did, so you can continue hating him instead
What type of financial site is it, and what's your current situation?
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| Originally Posted by ShytKicka How about this, loan $10,000. If you have somewhere close to that then great. Then, purchase 200 turnkey websites at $50 a site. You would need to make $1 per day on adsense from each site, and you'd be making a revenue of $6000 a month. I plan on going down this road soon. Any objections? |
Mook-Jon: Well, you can take that $10,000 loan and find something safer to use it for. While 200 turnkey sites sounds lovely, there are too many "what if's" in your equation. What if your sites get zero traffic and you don't reach your goal of $6k a month? Here's what you should do instead.. Buy 5 turnkey sites at most, and see if you can handle those. Market/advertise them the same way, but you may be able to tap into that $10k and give your sites a larger stream of traffic. I'll bet if you take things at a slower pace, and give each site more love and dedication, they will grow into earning a lot more than just $1 a day from Adsense. Set small goals for yourself. Always log the information of what works and what doesn't. You should be trying to create a system for yourself, so that you can apply it over and over again, and keep yourself at a fairly high success rate. Once you're confident that you've reached the level of the system where you can give a 95% success rate to a new site, then all that's left is to create volume. With your working system in hand, and a bunch of confidence on your side, you can easily create 100's of new sites each year that work on the same platform and start taking in serious income.
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Originally Posted by KGP change the name of the places, name etc (incl. some grammar and spelling mistakes and that i completed the uni stuff on time) and you just copy my life story.... boss!!! hahaha
btw i started in 96-97 how about you? |
Mook-Jon: Late 1994.
Originally Posted by
Check_Your_Nid
Hi,
I did a research on some of mook-jons sites, a few months ago he had a site in his profile so i was able to check backs links, the site url was ( http://www.moviemook.com/ )
I was able to find out that the sites below belong to Mook-jon, i assume that fark.com also belongs to him since he put a one way link to it on his iraqwarvideos.com site under "friends", it makes sense that this site belongs to him since he is calming that he get millions of traffic per day and it makes no sense to put a one way link to it on his iraqwarvideos.com site under friends.
iraqwarvideos.com
mesothelioma-articles.com
inksources.com |
Mook-Jon: Wow.. I wish I owned Fark.com. Drew Fark owns that one.. If you did a little research you could probably gather some information on why he named it Fark.com in the first place..
Yes. I own Iraqwarvideos.com (haven't even had a chance to update it since the fall when it was finally re-done). I've actually been trying to find someone to run that site for me, because it has the potential to do really well.
For inksources.com (I think it just recently expired, so you can pick that up if you like). And The mesothelioma site was used as a test project for an SEO campaign that was never launched due to so many side projects going on.
As for Moviemook.com -- I don't even own that anymore. GoDaddy.com actually dropped it some months ago because I didn't use valid information on the whois information (before I discovered the private domain option). I think Network Solutions took that one over.
Good job for picking up on my hobby projects that were never intended for use on a broad income scale. You can doubt whatever you like, I really could care less. I will continue to try and give solid advice to those who ask for it, not because of the crap that I've been getting for posting some stat screenshot, but because it seems that no matter how hard you try to instill confidence or motivation in your peers, you will always catch a bad reputation from those who are too bored or lazy to do the work themselves, and just want the instant secrets.
I would like to point something out though.. If I were really a fraud, where is my motivation? I've never proclaimed myself a guru or an expert on anything. I don't have my own ebook or sell any self help books or get rich quick schemes. So why am I doing this? Why am I taking time out of my day to answer questions that are totally unrelated to what I do, and give out pretty honest, straight forward advice? I don't ask for anything in return, except that they keep me updated on it. If anything, I've actually turned quite a few people away from taking money on a consulting or business proposition. It's not what I'm interested in. I hate to sound weird, but this is the way I feel is best to give back to the community. My offline community never helped me, and this one did, so instead of volunteering to do some work at an old age home, I figure giving sound advice to my peers on here is a much better way for me to make a difference. That's just how it works for me.
So while you may be a whois wizard, do some real research next time and before you make a post trying to ruin someone's reputation with no real evidence to back it up.
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| Originally Posted by DeveloperGuy2000 How many sites do you own? |
Mook-Jon: I currently own over 1500 domains.. I buy at least 3 random domains each week, but lately it's been more like 8 or 9. It's starting to become habit forming, but I have so many ideas (over 100 unique website ideas in on file to date).
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Originally Posted by BusinessEmpire Hey Mook - My New York Brethren. Congrats! Well done! I am currently trying to get to your level. Also, don't go crazy with the money you're making. New York City can be too expensive when it comes to certain things.
Keep up the good work! Right now, I am working on one website, which can hopefully in the future bring in $XX,XXX.XX a month. |
Mook-Jon: Yeah, NYC is definitely one of the most expensive cities to live in on earth. I know that when I finally find a good apartment to buy, explaining to the co-op board what "affiliate marketing" is will be loads of fun. Maybe I'll just direct them to this thread and save myself an hour of explaining.. 
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Originally Posted by kkibak thanks for such a great thread, it's motivational and very much appreciated.
near the beginning of this post you mentioned you don't like dealing w/content--i was wondering if you have any recommendations in terms of how to generate quality content efficiently?
also, you've mentioned logging information several times. what software or sites you're using to do your logging?
thanks again for such a good post |
Mook-Jon: Generating quality content? Ehh, that's one topic I'm not very good at. If you show me an example of a site or market you're trying to generate content for, I'll try my best to help you (post it on this thread, my PM's are killing me).
For logging ideas, and information, I just use Notepad or Wordpad really, no special software. I just sit there, and update what I see, and log as much information as possible. When I feel I've gathered enough raw data, I follow the steps I've laid out, and apply them. When the site is up to par, I just create a cajillion of them, and then move on to the next project at hand.
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Originally Posted by NtodaS Wow, what an achievement Mook. Great thread by the way, helping out people just because you like what you're doing. You got the right to be proud...
I'm just starting out in this business, I really don't know much about Seo and marketing. You probably have made over hunderds of contents site by repeating a same systamatic method. Can you please (generally) outline how I need to do Seo, from begin to end. You can keep it very short, in chronolical order.
Like for example: Make content -> Dir. submitting, on-site optimizing and more. In which order and significance.
I would be very thankful since I don't really know where to start. |
Mook-Jon: I think every site and market is different. This is why I tell people to make their own system that works for them. Just because I'm successful one way, doesn't mean it's easy for someone else to follow and get it right.
I guess the best system to follow that is pretty much the same for everything, is the very early stages of a site's development. Before you even secure a domain name, lay out the idea of your site in front of you, either on paper or in Notepad. Weigh out the pro's and con's of the site. Research as many competitor sites as possible. Figure out which keyword themes they are ranking well for, do your research on those keywords, and figure out for yourself what is making them so popular on the engines. Once you've laid out some traffic information, start jotting down ideas to make your site "unique". One of the primary goals your site should bring to the table is that it is different from all the other ones out there. Something about it needs to scream out to the crowd "LOOK AT ME, I'M DIFFERENT, AND BETTER". That's what can really make users keep coming back to your site over your competitors.
SEO is definitely a major player, but it doesn't have to be your only option. I think the absolute best way to attract attention and traffic to a site is through viral marketing (word of mouth). Perhaps make a contest of some sort if you can. Hand out flyers to friends, just get the word out. Offline advertising can be just as cheap as online advertising.
But before you get ahead of yourself, map out a budget. Even if it's $5 a month, you need to make realistic projections for yourself. This way you can really start to figure out how well or bad a site is doing, and never be afraid to make drastic adjustments if need be.
Sometimes, you'll run into a dead end and the only wise thing to do is abandon the project or save it for a rainy day sometime next year. Don't be afraid to give up on a site, many times I do the same, and then I figure out how to make it work months later. I know I say never give up, but sometimes, a dying site needs to be cut loose, and it takes a lot of guts to disband from a project you may feel passionate about. Only cut it loose though if it's doing more harm than good. Sometimes people feel that a non-profitable site is still profitable in other areas (spreading the word about something).
Before I write another novel post here, I just want to point out that there are millions of ideas to use in every aspect of a site from pre-launch to selling it for lots of money. Overall, just be creative and unique, and I think you'll do just fine. If it's money you're interested in, you need to approach the site from a business perspective. Don't be unrealistic to yourself, always go into it asking yourself "can this be profitable, and if so, what will it take to make it so, in how long a time?". If you feel confident of the answer, then start it up, if not, put it on the backburner and start something new.
This cycle never ends, and sometimes it's a lot of fun, but other times it's tough as hell. Either way, I would never do anything else.
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| Originally Posted by gery Mook-Jon, you are the KING! I really appreciate you and your help! You are my ideal! |
Mook-Jon: Heh, I'm nowhere near being a king my friend.. There are plenty of people trumping me in the affiliate game. I just feel if you're passionate and creative enough within your industry, you truly can accomplish anything. Just keep plugging away guys, and you'll get there someday I'm sure.
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Originally Posted by john2k
Mook, Congrats on your success.
Just an interesting observation: my CJ earnings as a percentage of yours, the number of domains I own as a percentage of the domains you own as well as the percentage of the domains you own that are current working/developed sites (compared to the same ratio as mine) - are all very close to the same. Certainly there is not enough data to say there is a statistical correlation to those numbers, but the idea of there being some kind of correlation is very interesting to me.
Your CJ numbers are greater than mine, but only by a relatively small multiple in the grand scheme of things. I often think about how I am going to take my business to the *next level* and compare my current situation to how my situation was X# of years ago. My results now are 100s x greater than they used to be, depending on at what point I am comparing to. That seemed like such a huge hurdle. Now even a very small multiple increase would mean a huge amount - just 2x would be a very big leap for me.
I continually strive for growth and seeing your CJ stats just reaffirms to me that what I believe is possible actually is possible. You're about 2 years ahead of me in this business of the net, hopefully in two years from now I can catch up to where you are currently. And by that time I hope that you have been able to set the par even higher! |
Mook-Jon: Thanks for all the of the kind words people have left in their posts. I really appreciate it. I'm not gone, nor will I ever leave. I've just had a really long and busy week, and I also need to get an SEO article written and posted sometime next week. I've been in close contact with a lot of people I've met from SP, and some have offered their statements as proof to my original post, but I've asked them not to because that wasn't the point of this thread. The point is that no matter how hard you think you have it, there is always hope at the end of the road. People on here will always try their hardest to help you out in whatever questions you have. You don't have to necessarily play by the rules either. Be creative, be original, but don't just give up. This game requires work, just like any industry. If you make a site and just expect, that because you put up some adwords that your site will make money, then you're a fool and you'll learn the hard way unfortunately. When I first started out I never in my entire life thought I would be making what I do in one month without being a doctor or a CEO of some giant company, but that's why the internet is great. Because even the small guys, like you and me can make it work to their benefit. We are savvier in a way that we understand trends better, and we can pickup on information and apply it even faster than most people in the offline business world. Everyone here has the power to succeed, it's just a question of accepting this life as a business, or as a "hobby". If you're willing to dedicate, educate, and apply yourself to your site(s), you'll succeed after much trial and error. But if you're here for a quick buck, keep moving, because you'll just give yourself false hopes.
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| Originally Posted by MadCool DANG!!!!! Wow. It's good to know a fellow NYer is doing so well. I'm mad little compare to you, hopefully I'll start making 5 figures a month in a few years. Thanks for the motivation. Quick Question out of 1500 domain names, how many are developed site that is making you money? Which affiliate programs on CJ has done the best for you? |
Mook-Jon: If you want to truly bank it with CJ.. Financial merchants are your best bet. They are easy to make money with, because they pay per free information lead, and don't require users to sign up and pay for anything. Depending on your volume, most start out paying you an avg of $30 per lead. I was able to score over $40 per lead with a few of them.
TIP: If you make a site dedicated to the mortgage/refinance/debt consolidation niches, you can EASILY bank $40k a month without breaking a sweat.
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Originally Posted by chemoul Thanks for sharing that with us, Mook-Jon.
The burning questions remain unanswered so far however:
- if you say you are bad with creating content how do you drive traffic to your websites?
- what content do you use on your websites to get people to click on your affiliate links (free articles??)
- how do you manage to create a site that people recommend (viral) if the content isn't all the great?
Thank you for your comments.
Steve |
Mook-Jon: Alright.. some much awaited information for you guys who are still following this thread. By the way, I'd just like to take this moment to thank everyone who has emailed me or PM'ed me with praise and thanks for inspiring them, imagine, all this without trying to sell anyone on a lame ebook (take notice you ebook guys). Also, I've seen a lot of my posts being published on all sorts of blogs and articles, and it's pretty cool to read through it and think "wow, people are actually taking notice and listening". It's a pretty cool feeling.
So onto the blood and guts of this post..
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| - if you say you are bad with creating content how do you drive traffic to your websites? |
Mook-Jon: The reason so many of my sites are doing well is because I've been a firm believer and preacher when it comes to creating VOLUME. By volume I mean a lot of websites. With one you're trying to focus as much attention on that one site, and when a user is just not interested, he/she will leave and look for something else. When you have a lot of sites targetting different aspects of the mother niche, you're able to leverage the traffic and interest of your users. If your site is about blue widgets, and you have a link on your site to another one of your sites that's about red widgets, and the user to the blue widgets site wants to see red ones, he/she will clickthrough and still get to find the information they were originally seeking, but on another channel of your network. Now if you only had one focus on your site, that would result in a user that would probably never end up coming back. Utilizing volume, you've just created your own competition, but also scored what could be an important lead, sale, or click for your revenue. Driving traffic to a volume network makes life much easier for you, because you can either purchase or funnel through traffic from all sorts of different means at a much more targeted pace. I wish I could better answer the question, but it's far too general. I have so many different niches and topics that whatever works for one site, doesn't necessarily work for the other. This is why I constantly stress that you should create your own custom system for your site, and log everything that works and doesn't work. If I owned a site like Myspace and as some here like to think, Fark.com, although the two are huge traffic consumption machines, they would have to be marketed in totally different ways to go from zero to hero. Every site is different, and every owner is different. Be creative and original (I've said this many times).
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| - what content do you use on your websites to get people to click on your affiliate links (free articles??) |
Mook-Jon: It's all original content. And yes, I absolutely outsource the work, because I know that if I were the reader/user I would not trust a badly written article. When you have a website, and your goal is to cash in on it, you ultimately need to spend some money to make some money. The sooner people start realizing this, the sooner they'll get a bit more serious about their site, their budgets, and their ultimate performance. If I'm making a content site, I try and get the best and most original content out there. Whether it's purchasing consulting time from an expert on the matter so I can begin to become better versed on the topic or just hiring a team of writers who know the topic and write well enough. Sometimes it can be costly, but remember, we are in this for the money, and if that's your ultimate goal, then accomplishing it should be at the top of your list.
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| - how do you manage to create a site that people recommend (viral) if the content isn't all the great? |
Mook-Jon: The content is almost always top notch. If it's not up to par, why would I release it in the first place? My goal is to create sites that are useful to the user, but also guarantee that I will make money for providing the information, without charging my users. This way the users are happy to eat up good content, I'm happy because I make money in the process, and the advertisers are happy because they are getting relevant new leads or clients.
Viral marketing is very tough. There is no real laid out system out there, and probably never will be because figuring out what makes people talk to their friends or refer things to one another is usually a case by case basis. What gets people excited about a new shoe, won't necessarily work for a gaming website. Theres A LOT of work (sometimes stressful) in figuring out what will make a site viral. Get ready for a ton of trial and error too. But just keep at it. Because viral marketing is like free advertising in a sense. Someone is a lot more likely to go to a website because their friend told them about, than if they saw it in a banner or text advertisement.
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Originally Posted by Michael_Goldman so content is still the king after all...
*went to look for quality writers* |
Mook-Jon: There is no monarch in the world of affiliate/publisher marketing. You cannot survive solely on one without the other. Not sure why people always think that one outweighs the other, because without traffic, you get no revenue, but without content, you get no user interest or real revenue. Sure there are a few sites out there that don't follow these rules, but on a realistic and long term business level, you need both to be up to par in order to get the maximum revenue. That's all there is to it.
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Originally Posted by Nietzsche So what you basically do is take the traffic you get and funnel it to all the sub-niche sites you have, so that in the end the visitor gets exactly what he wants (ideally ) and you can deliver him the sales-message he needs so that in the end your revenue is maximized in the process.
You have the content created for your purposes and this allows you to target your traffic yourself, so that you can buy not-so-targeted traffic, make it targeted and then cash in.
In effect, you build targeting-machines.
Is that a correct summary of your Volume-strategy?
At least this sounds reasonable given that you seem to use offline-advertising, which is usually less targeted.
You also seem to have a lot of love for the details as well as a strong focus on quality, which, I suppose, is also a big part of the puzzle.
Thanks for sharing.  |
Mook-Jon: Targeting machines, I like that reference!
As for advertising, sure getting the word out to the masses is nice, but does that really bring in max revenue? Not really. I change my marketing/advertising scope on the needs of that particular web property or niche. I'm not going to go on a media buying spree for a run of the network buy just so I can get 40 Million views.. I would much rather take that money and leverage it in a place where the target site reaches it's target market. Then using the left over cash, I can realistically budget it and spread it out over a specific amount of time until it's self sufficient, and then I'll slowly phase out the ad spending. It's a process, and it never really ends. I guess it's all about coming to terms with that and continuing with the follow through, which can be really tough and annoying at times, but this is what needs to be done to make bank. As the wise words of Nike -- JUST DO IT.
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Originally Posted by Michel32 My question Mook-Jon is where is your original traffic (entering your network) coming from: SEs, PPC, referral sites, etc.?
Thanks for your help! |
Mook-Jon: I can't really give a good answer for this, because not only is it too general, but it's like asking where the fountain of youth is. There is no one central traffic goldmine that gets tapped everytime a new project launches. I get my traffic from so many different sources depending solely on the target market I'm going after, and figuring out how affordable it can be, and if it's worth the investment risk. Sometimes it costs nothing, other times it takes up half my budget, either way, I'm willing to spend some to make some, and if it's going to net me big profits in months down the line, I'm going to do it.
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Originally Posted by SuperSEO If you have XX Million uniques a month, your network may be worth in the $100 mil range. UltSearch was bought out for $160 Mil and they only get around 17 mil uniques a month. Also, you should be making more than $45,000 a month on that kind of traffic.
I have been able to pull in 6 figure a month from a fraction of that traffic. |
Mook-Jon: Are you making an offer? I highly doubt my network is worth anywhere near that amount.. But it's definitely fun to wish!
I think one of the big reasons ultsearch sold out for so much was because they were domains that had established traffic, and brandable real estate names. Although my network may generate a fair amount of traffic itself, if I stop marketing it or just leave it be like he did with his, the traffic would eventually die out and be worthless. There's a huge difference between my company and his. I wish I had what he did.. Zero marketing, taking already established traffic domains and putting expensive PPC search engines on there.. psh, pure genius. Kudos to him.
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| Those numbers were only for his CJ account...at least that's how I understood it |
Mook-Jon: Yep. Only the CJ account screenshot for the remainder of the Dec 05 and part of Jan 06.
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Originally Posted by Gifted I really like this topic and it has motivated me to continue my affiliate business!  |
Mook-Jon: Glad to hear it Gifted!
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Originally Posted by Gifted I've left my Technology Risk Management job and went full-time to run a affiliate web business. At the moment, I'm also taking a MBA and my current module is on Strategic Management.
What I've found out that Jon has been to business school as well and I'd like to know how the strategies that are mention here can be associated with theories like the Havard Business School "Porter 5 forces".
Hope Jon can reply. Thanks!  |
Mook-Jon: I'm actually an Ivy leaguer drop-out believe it or not.. Some people think I'm nuts when I tell them that I got into an Ivy school and then dropped out, but I guess school is just not made for everyone, regardless of what type it is. I knew from the get go, I did not want to be a lawyer, doctor, or some type of finance guy that required years and years of schooling. I was born with an entrepenurial spirit, and a slice of greed, which don't work very well in classrooms. I know a lot of my business ethics aren't up to par with everyone else's, but I'm okay with it. I feel confident enough that although the decision to drop out may have been the wrong one to some people, it was by far the smartest thing I've ever decided to do. It's all about taking chances, listening to your gut, and moving forward with it, regardless of what everyone else says. Sometimes you're wrong though, but usually you're right. I think the scariest thing is missing out on a perfect opportunity when it presents itself. A lot of people don't know how to properly read it, and balk when the time is right. Being successful has a lot to do with going for what you think is right, and less holding on to other people's hands. Take chances, that's what makes life so much fun.
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Originally Posted by xposed Trivium,
From what I can gather there are Publishers and Advertisers, but I am not entirely sure what the difference is.
I know what advertisers are of course, but with respect to the publishers, is that what Mook-Jon would classify himself as?
And mook-jon was speaking about a program that would pay you for leads and not actual CPA when he spoke of the mortgage niche website one could develop.
Is commission junction just a network that shows you different affiliate programs that you could be apart of?
Does it cost any money?
I have looked around the website, but I am having trouble wrapping my head around the lingo used. |
Mook-Jon: CJ (Commission Junction) is a central affiliate program that charges Advertisers to gain access to it's Publisher network. If you want to join CJ, you need to go to CJ.com and join for free. There are never any costs to publishers/affiliates. If you happen to come across a different program that charges it's affiliates/publishers, then I'd stay as far away from those guys as possible.
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Originally Posted by gery Great thread!!! Jon, can I ask you how much do you make daily with adsense?
Thanks |
Mook-Jon: Earlier this year it was about $30k a month total.. but now it's close to zero. I'm not a fan of Adsense at all. I used to have them all over my sites, but I've removed a good 98% of them and replaced them with CPM advertisers. I'll be Adsense free by the summer.
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Originally Posted by Michael_Goldman People all over the internet are telling CPM and CPA advertising is dying and it's the new age of adsense and ypn, but I think you disagree with them..
Is it just your own view, because you're better with affiliate programs, or do you think the future doesn't belong to adsense?
would love to hear your opinion |
Mook-Jon: Fantastic question, but I doubt we will ever get a one answer to this question. It will be debated for a long long time.
I don't think anything will actually "die out". I think it will depend on which industry we're referring to will depend heavily upon which type of advertising means. If anything, CPL (Cost Per Lead) will soon become a dominant force over CPM and CPC because it's kind of like a synergy between those two. I think CPA is here to stay. In 15 years from now, I think the top two types of payouts will be CPA and CPL.
The beauty of the internet is that it is always evolving and re-creating itself. It plays an entirely new and different role in advertising. With the internet, your average Joe Blow may own a website that gets a ton of traffic, which in turn allows him to decide how expensive or inexpensive advertising to his users are. Before the internet, the only companies able to do this were the really huge big boys that owned radio, TV and newspaper outlets. I think we are in the beginning stages of what can be a very interesting ride as far as the evolution of advertising online is concerned. The dot-com bubble took us from insanely expensive advertising to what is now considered much more affordable, and safer for advertisers, while still paying out those individual guys that own their own small networks.
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| Originally Posted by nathanAUS 1. Is there a better way to generate income? I'm not interested in shady methods or ripping people off. I genuinely want to have quality sites that help me pay the bills, or even better replace my job and turn into a job themselves. |
Mook-Jon: There are always alternatives to generate income on the internet. Whether you want to start a content driven website that focuses on constantly updating your site with articles, pictures, news, etc and rely on ad networks or PPC networks to pay you out, or whether you want to focus on making sales with your site, or even both. The point is you need to do your research. You can't just start up a site because you like the topic of it. There is never any guarantee that you will make money. If you were to consider the possibilities of launching sites that you already know not a lot of content exists for this topic, and on top of that there are so few advertisers, and even less users, what's the point of continuing with it and depending on it?
I know I say "never give up", but sometimes you have to, otherwise you'll keep torturing yourself. I'm not telling you to disband from this project and sell it, but perhaps you're working too hard at it, when it's nowhere near being in it's prime.
When someone gets serious about making money online they need to come up with a large list of ideas. Then go through the rather annoying process of eliminating what will work and what will not. You also need to factor in tons of different things such as budgets, time, content availability, how large the market is, how many advertisers there are for this type of stuff, etc. It gets even more difficult for selling products, but that's part of the game. I can't sit there and hold your hand and tell you everything will be okay, here, try this.. because that would just be leading you on. If you want to make money, you will get yourself up, go out and do the necessary research, and start logging everything.
I say this over and over.. there is no sure fire way to make tons of money. Every system is different. The best and easiest way for you to accomplish the task at hand is to create a system for yourself, and just keep following it over and over again. Most projects fail, but that's okay, because at least you've taken the first step and tried it. The second step is usually accepting failure and moving on.
You need to find something that interests you enough so that you can make a living either reporting on it, writing on it, selling it, or just creating a buzz for it. Whatever "it" is, that's what you need to find out on your own. This thread alone has a ton of different ideas to follow, and you're going to have to use your own brain too, because as soon as you become dependant on someone or something, it's so tough to break away from it or expand on your own.
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| Originally Posted by nathanAUS Are these content packs worth it? At least initially? Sure they are generic and are probably out there en-masse, but are they good enough? Ideally I'd write it myself or pay others to do it but A) I don't know everything about everything and B) I don't have the money to pay others - nor would I know where to look for people willing to be paid to write. |
Mook-Jon: I've never in my life purchased a "content pack". I'm not even sure what it looks like, but from the sound of it, it certainly doesn't sound like unqiue content, which is something sites should have a lot of if they want to really stand out from their competition. Writing articles is not that tough if you genuinely like to write. In fact, you can take your already written content, and just re-word it so that it's done by you, essentially, all you really need to do is keep the main idea in focus of the article, and you'll have an "original" and unique article for your site.
A) No one does. But that's why the internet is great, because it's not only a means to make a living, but it's also a melting pot of all of the world's information. You need to do research on a topic before you write about it.
B) Everyone has to start off doing the legwork themselves. It sounds like you're being very lazy with this, and if that's the case, you will most probably fail. You need to change your attitude and start taking on new responsibilities with your sites and content. Take charge of the project and become that one man does it all. After you've generated some income doing so, then you can slowly outsource to the work to freelancers and free up some of your time to focus on other areas of development and marketing.
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Originally Posted by kgtrip I have to add my 2 cents:
In my opinion in the future to come we would see a combination of all the methods being used today. I named it CPP, Cost Per Performance , in which the publisher would get revenue for:
1. Displaying the ad (CPM based)
2. If the visitor clicked it (CPC based)
3. If the visitor purchased something or registered (CPL & CPA based)
I think that method would be the best way publishers should be compensated for banner displaying. If this method would be use by the ad networks, I guess the average rates would be lowered per method separately (CPM, CPC, CPA) however the average would stay the same as you get something for every part of the way. |
Mook-Jon: The reason CPM will never die out is because just like branding commercials, sometimes advertisers just want to get their word out without actually making any direct sales or leads. Also, PPC will never die out either, because stores that make sales over the phone would much rather have someone clickthrough or submit a lead than buy a small lower priced item online.
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| Originally Posted by FighterSpirit Ye, and not only that, you get and better PR on Search Engines... |
Mook-Jon: Focusing on PageRank will only make you go crazy in the long run. It's just a tool Google came up with to give webmasters something to look at when they were waiting for updates..
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Originally Posted by Miraculix I got a questions for you:
1.
Are these sales generated through a small amount of CJ affiliate programs which you joined or a large amount?
a, 1-25
b, 25-100
c, 100+
d, 1000+
Thanks,
MX |
Mook-Jon: Small amount. 13 to be exact.
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Originally Posted by horoxxx i want also place my question:
how and where do you put your text links? i mean, are you putting text links, or you are using banners. if text links, they are near or inside of content.
thanks
horo |
Mook-Jon: I more or less create pages that are integrated with the affiliate code. Sometimes people make full page ads or half page ads, stick some written content in here and there and expect to make the sale or get the lead form filled out. What you should be doing is first speak to the affiliate manager of that particular advertiser, and work with them to build a page where either the form is integrated into the actual content page, or where the "helpful links" inside the content creates a sort of urgency for the user to click it and fill out the forms that way. Each page doesn't look or feel like a sales page, it gives off the approach that the advertiser controls this page, and not some publisher in NYC (me).. Make it professional looking enough, and that can actually increase leads by A LOT.
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| Originally Posted by pdxz btw i wish I could have actually tracked down some of your finance sites, but i'm not enough of a sleuth :-) |
Mook-Jon: I'll give you a hint.. they pretty much dominate on G and Y for almost every mortgage related term. That's the bulk of my traffic source too for that project.
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| Originally Posted by webox Do you take vacations? If so does it impact your websites? |
Mook-Jon: I haven't been going away as much as I'd like to, or need to. I actually went to Miami for a weekend about 2-3 weeks ago (I can't even remember now!). So that was nice to leave everything behind and get away from it all and just sit back and relax. Normally, when I leave for a weekend I don't come back to any major errors, but I have to say, whenever I do choose to leave for say a week's time, there are ALWAYS problems that normally never happen. It's like my sites want to give me a heart attack.. But overall, 90% of my sites are pretty self sufficient, and so are their traffic situations, so it's like that infomercial says "set it and forget it" -- for the most part. I also try to leave someone who knows a bit what I do in charge of the situation just in case.
Recently I've turned one of my designers into my project manager, which I've never done before. So I'm quite confident that he will be able to handle most of the workload and allow me to focus more on marketing/advertising and coming up with new ideas for projects. It's like having an apprentice, which rocks!
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| Originally Posted by Troutnut Here's a question Mook. It seems you have hundreds, if not thousands, of websites. Normally when somebody's doing that many of something, it's because they expect many to fail and want to keep the best of the "batch" for further development. Is that your philosophy, or do you work on each and every one until it succeeds? What percentage of your sites, if any, are duds? |
Mook-Jon: Interesting question..
Well, I generally don't make a ton of sites just for the hell of it. They each have their purpose within the project. I try and make as many sites in one specific niche as possible so that I can literally choke out my peers/competition in the long haul. It may sound brutal, but let's not forget, this is business, and business can be brutal. My job is to make my websites as profitable as possible. Very rarely a site will not be able to pull it's weight in profits, so if all else fails and it's really not performing up to the minimum requirements, I'll remove it's content and just direct it's traffic to the other sites that can create revenue from it. I don't sell sites or end their lives, there is generally always a way to use a site or domain that is underperforming. So in turn, there are no failing sites really, just underperforming ones that become a traffic source for the better sites. Hope that answers your question.
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Originally Posted by lukeeales Mook-Jon,
Great thread. I applaud your open attitude to sharing information!
I have a question regarding mortgage/refinance sites. Here are two options:
1. Use a generic, 1-word domain like example.com. It has existing traffic, and can be branded well into a site and name, helping return traffic.
2. Use a keyword-laden name full of hyphens like mortgage-refinance.org. Appears to be better for SEO, but has a spam feel and will not stick in the minds of customers.
You see, I have several 1-word brandable dictionary names, with trickles of 50 uniques per day from type-ins. Is an SEO-friendly URL better than a memorable web address for a finance-related affiliate site?
Look forward to a reply, Jon!! |
Mook-Jon: I like brandable website names much better than those annoying and ugly dash domains. Branding is a much better goal to accomplish in the longrun, and depending on the types of sites you have or services you provide can make a BIG difference in revenues. I mean, let's use finance for an example here.
Let's say I have a site, mortgage.com versus find-mortgages.com. First off, mortgage.com would be seared into any potential customer's head without a doubt, whereas the other one may appear as findmortgages.com to them, without the dash, which means you've just branded your competitor's domain into their head instead of your own! On the engines, sure, domains are important, but they are not THE most important to have if it's fluid engine traffic you're interested in. I've noticed that over the last few months engines have been giving a lot more attention to non-dashed domains than the ones that are dashed. I'm sure other SEO's will disagree, but whenever I search on the engines for something, I generally stay away from the dashed sites. Also, from a mortgage perspective, when you are looking for a mortgage online and are willing to fill out a lot of personal information, which would you feel more comfortable using? mortgage.com or find-mortgages.com -- I'd go with option A.
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Originally Posted by MoneyBusiness I'm sure that has a lot to do with the fact that about everyother multi-dashed site out there involves some kind of shady work, you know, the ones that throw up about 100 popups and install about 20 apps in the blink of any eye..
If it's a one-dasher, i'll go to it if it looks promising, but if I see one with more than two or three, there's no chance i'll click. Thanks, but i'll pass on the spyware.. |
Mook-Jon: Dashes just aren't attractive, and they just don't seem all that trustworthy or serious.
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Originally Posted by axemedia Mook Jon you are also expressing your bias as a web developer who knows that the dashed domiains are use by webmasters seeking keyword rich domains that are not already taken. The average surfer would not know the difference.
But you are right the non dashed would be better for branding, but if you are simply trying to gleam some seach traffic to hopefully send some customers to an affiliate link dashed domians still do the trick.
I sometimes use them but try my damdest not too. |
Mook-Jon: If you want to use them, no one is stopping you. Go for it. But for me personally, I like to brand my sites for the long run, and those dashes are just plain ugly and tough to remember most of the time.
Mook-Jon: Alright guys.. from now on, since this thread is far too long already, and I am so sick of getting private messages, just direct your questions to my blog in my sig. I'll try and get everything answered. Thanks for all of the praise, and kind words, it means a lot to me!
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